Problems with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

[mxmEros]

I have been trying to get started on a CBT program. Right now I am doing the cognitive part of it. I am running into problems which i cant seem to find a way around to continue. First of all, how do you tell which thoughts are OC thoughts and which thoughts are just anxiety? I spend lots of time trying to figure this one out.

I really don't understand how cognitive therapy for anxiety works......because anxious thoughts they come so fast, and they dont make any sense. how can you reframe them? There are literally a million anxious thoughts I have, they aren't topic specific. Most of them are doubts, and fears. I know I am not supposed to feel anxious, there is no reason for me too, but I do anyways. I don't see how looking at distortions can change this, as i tell myself not to be anxious almost every day, and i still am. Also, alot of my thoughts tend to be "what if's" thoughts and unconfident thoughts like "am i doing this right" "what if this isnt right" etc etc. Are these classified as obsessive thoughts? or is it classified as regular anxiety? Because I think these thoughts obsessively (frequently), does that make them part of the OCD?
Many of you are wondering why in the hell this is important. And it is important I'll tell you why. Because they say for OCD thoughts, it does no good to reframe them. Reframing is just a reassurance. And OCD breeds on reassurance......so you see, my dillema. I have pretty much stopped listing thoughts down, because of this. I feel stuck, I don't want to spend time reframing thoughts, if they really should be handled a different way, through ERP. Come to think of it, is it really helpful or therapeutic to reframe any anxious thoughts? because anxiety pretty much thrives on reassurance? i dont know this has confused me deeply. But they recommend CBT for anxiety, so i am lost.
I hate this, why can't things just be simpler.....

Can any of you clarify the situation or explain to me how this works? I would really like to move past this so that I can start the program.


Eric

[Post-It]

personally when I think of reassurance, I think of someone saying "it's ok, don't worry, you're not gay," or "we all know you'll never act on those harm thoughts," and so on. And yes I can see how people view reframing as reassurance. But I see it as calling it for what it is - it's just a thought that's caused by something not processing right in our brain. Either way, through ERP or reframing, the goal is to lessen the fear of the thought, right? So however you choose to react to it - by reframing, or exposing yourself to the most anxiety/fear you can handle, or by adopting a humorous/"whatever" attitude, you're changing your response to the thought.

[sander]

The 'what if' questions you are talking about are definitely obsessions, not 'just' anxiety. Reframing your thoughts takes time. Your brain will slowly start to stop freaking out when the thought pops up, if you are able to change your response to it. Don't give up yet.

[mxmEros]

I thought obsessions revolved around a specific topic. like fear of germs. or fear of being gay. or fear of this, or fear of that. How can there be a fear of unconfidence? Are you sure this is OCD? I know its obsessive, because I do it constantly. I doubt everything i do, almost. wondering if im doing it right, or if there is a better way. im constantly questioning whether my thoughts are OCD thoughts or anxiety thoughts. I think this has become an obsession in itself. In that case, I am wondering if i should stop this therapy all together. As it is definately making me worse.

I don't understand why i question everything to death. I wish i could just stop. but i cant. i am losing faith in this CBT. I dont see how it could ever work. My thoughts are so automatic...they will never stop or change. I can talk back to them all i want, it just doesnt do anything. This feels so hopeless.

this seems impossible, because its getting far too confusing and complicated. evreything could potentially be an obsession, or can be obsessed about. i spend way too much time trying to decipher it all and its stressing me the f*ck out. Why can't i just get better. i am so sick of this. Its like this disorder wants to destroy me. it wont let me get better. as soon as i try, it just finds reasons to confuse me and f*ck me over.
And another thing.......part of me still wants to hang onto the fear that " i didnt do this right" or "what if" or " am i doing this right". How can i reframe this, or let this go, if i still want to hang onto it.
And also............what would be a reframe for this scenario. I mean. what is the distortion here? How do i reframe this so i stop freaking out?

[Post-It]

well, first, anxiety is just your body's way of reacting to a fearful situation (or thought in this case). I can get anxious about giving a public speech because I'm afraid of messing up or forgetting my words. When I think about giving birth, I get anxious because of the pain and hard work involved! It is normal to have anxiety about everyday situations.

Obsessions are different - it's a loop that keeps going around and around in your head. That loop (thought) can cause anxiety and fear. At this point, I would say that any thought related to your obsession is classified as an OCD thought. Any other thought that might make you anxious outside of the realm of your obsession (like, oh I'm nervous about taking this big test, what if I fail?) you can chalk up to normal, everyday anxiety.

At some point, with every OCD therapy, you are going to have to stop questioning and start doing. Stop worrying about doing something right. Try it for a while, and if it doesn't work, try something else. Some people do great with ERP, others do great with CBT. Some find their own way to handle OCD. You just need to find something that works for YOU, but you won't get there if you keep worrying about if you're doing it right or not.

[cyberchick]

Post - It is right... We have to stop worrying about whether we are doing the treatment right. I ran off the stuff on Brainlack, and as I read it, I already started worrying " How do I know if this thought is an absession or a compulsion? " at the end of the day it doesn't matter --- they are thoughts and I need to resist placing any importance on them.

You just have to take a risk and do it.

[mxmEros]

Originally Posted by Post-It

At some point, with every OCD therapy, you are going to have to stop questioning and start doing. Stop worrying about doing something right. Try it for a while, and if it doesn't work, try something else. Some people do great with ERP, others do great with CBT. Some find their own way to handle OCD. You just need to find something that works for YOU, but you won't get there if you keep worrying about if you're doing it right or not.

You say stop worrying about it. Thats exactly what i wish i could do...then i'll start obsessing what is the best way to ignore it, what is the best way to stop worrying about it. obsession starts again. i literally cant shut my mind off.

when all i really want to do is lie back, do deep breathing, and stop the train of obsessive thoughts. ur saying, the best way is not to STOP them, but to reframe them. so that way, they will dissipate.....right? or basically ignore them, and just do it anyway, so not giving it importance. But do I really have any control over the thoughts that i start thinking (is this right, etc etc.)

Eric

[mxmEros]

Originally Posted by Post-It

At some point, with every OCD therapy, you are going to have to stop questioning and start doing. Stop worrying about doing something right. Try it for a while, and if it doesn't work, try something else. Some people do great with ERP, others do great with CBT. Some find their own way to handle OCD. You just need to find something that works for YOU, but you won't get there if you keep worrying about if you're doing it right or not.

You say stop worrying about it. Thats exactly what i wish i could do...then i'll start obsessing what is the best way to ignore it, what is the best way to stop worrying about it. obsession starts again. i literally cant shut my mind off.

when all i really want to do is lie back, do deep breathing, and stop the train of obsessive thoughts. ur saying, the best way is not to STOP them, but to reframe them. so that way, they will dissipate.....right? or basically ignore them, and just do it anyway, so not giving it importance. But do I really have any control over the thoughts that i start thinking (is this right, etc etc.) i always feel like i have no direct control over the thoughts that pop up in my head.

Eric

[Post-It]

Eric, it takes a LOT of mental discipline to stop worrying about it. I know how hard it is because when I am in a bad OCD cycle, I will be ruminating and obsessing without even realizing it. My last bad cycle lasted 3 weeks and I know what you mean by saying "I literally can't shut my mind off." That's how I feel, too, when my OCD is bad.

It's really hard, but you have to make up your mind to stop doing it. do anything to stop - distract yourself, play a game, do anything that requires focusing on something mentally. You can't obsess about something and at the same time, be doing an activity that requires mental stimulation.

No, you don't have any control over the thoughts that pop into your head. If we did, we wouldn't have to deal with OCD! Basically, what I do, when a thought pops into my head is I say something like "shut up" or "thanks but I'm not interested right now" or "oh yeah i've heard that before, thanks," or "whatever" - the point is to not stop the thoughts but to change your reaction to them. If you adopt a reaction that does not fear the thoughts, the thought becomes less important. While you may not have direct control over the thoughts that pop into your head, you do have control over how you react to them. Recognize it for what it is - just a random, stupid thought- and say hey, that's cool, but I'm gonna go watch a movie or I'm going to go read a magazine or wash my car or play a game or ANYTHING that requires your mind to focus on something.

Like cyberchick said, it's not so much about the method, as long as the end result is changing your response to the thoughts. When you're less afraid, the thoughts have less power.

[cyberchick]

You don't feel you can control your thoughts because you are in an ocd cycle. When things don't feel right, that's because of the chemical imbalance in your brain. You won't acheive that feeling of correctness because your brain isn't working. Your brain is not functioning properly, the mechanism that allows you to leave your thought behind and do something else is not working. It means that we have to consciously take over the capacity that our brains are incapable of performing --- go from worrying to a different, constructive behavior.

Your thoughts will come as they do. We can't make them vanish, and there's no point in trying. The point is to not do anything with the thought. Know that it is ocd, not you --- your brain is sending you false messages. Let the thought be there and go do something, anything at all. I'm thinking about getting one of those paint by numbers books and working on a picture when I start to worry.

I know it's difficult, because the thoughts feel so convincing. You think, " this is so important, how can I NOT worry about it right now? This isn't ocd, any normal person would worry about this " At least that's how I think, and I believe it's a way for my ocd to jusrify its presence. Well, the thought can come, but it doesn't mean I have to take it at face value or let it get to me. My brain is sending me false messages about what is right or feels right.